On-line Interview on "the Inkwell"
-- May/June 2002 --
Page Three
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Inkwell.vue topic #150: David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains
-- continued --
#41: Elisabeth Wickett (wickett) Tue 21 May 2002
Spirit of the Mountains is indeed a stunning book and I feel very privileged to have read it.
Are San-Shin stories told to modern children in Korea?
Is the vivacity of the belief being passed on in that most basic of cultural ways?
Or is it introduced to the young more culturally and religiously?
#42: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 2002
Excellent questions, Elisabeth. I was wondering the same.
Also, how much (if any) is taught in primary or secondary education?
#43: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 21 May 2002
From what I've learned about Korean martial arts, apparently the Japanese devoted much effort to
influencing - if not overhauling outright - many aspects of Korean culture during their occupation.
One result was that older Korean martial art forms, such as Tae Kyun and Su Bak Do, were
suppressed and Japanese styles dominated Korean martial arts, despite the use of Korean names
such Tang Su Do (which was for the most part Japanese Karate). After the Japanese occupation
ended, Koreans adopted Tae Kwon Do in a spirit of renewed nationalism, and it was supposed to
represent a "getting back to Korean roots" movement.
But even as late as the mid-60s, many were still using the name "Korean Karate" (Karate being a
Japanese word). And many older generation Korean Tae Kwon Do masters continued to use
Japanese words, such as "gi" (uniform) and "kata" (movement pattern), instead of the Korean words,
"dobak" and "pum seh," respectively.
In other words, even though the Korean name, Tae Kwon Do, was adopted, the art itself was still very
Japanese in style. When the post-WWII generation came of age, the actual practice of Tae Kwon Do
was decisively overhauled to rid it as much as possible of its former Japanese influence. This
could be seen in the dramatic difference between the old and new pum-seh, for instance the old
"pal-geh" versus the new "tae-guk" series.
Did the Japanese try to alter San-shin or other Korean religious practices in a similar way? If so,
to what extent did they succeed, and was there a similar movement afterward to recover from it?
#44: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 2002
You're quite right about the Taekwondo case. By the way, those last two terms you mentioned for
series of moves are now spelled pal-gwae [eight diagrams (trigrams of the I Ching)] and tae-geuk
[the grand ultimate (yin-yang symbol)].
During the first half (the soft part) of their imperial occupation of Korea 1910-1945, the Japanese
mostly ignored Korean folk-culture and didn't try to alter it. During the second half (the militarist
part) they actively tried to wipe out Korean culture and replace it with their own, or with
subjegated-to-Japan versions. Korean folk-religious practices such as San-shin and Dan-gun
ceremonies were
suppressed, and Japanese Shinto (shamanic, but Emperor-centered) was harshly imposed.
I used to know an 80-yr-old Neo-Confucian scholar, one of the last of the old Joseon-Dynasty types
and a real fish-out-of-water in 1988 -91 post-Olympics Korea. My former wife's Chinese-character
teacher Grandfather Song Heon spent his youth 1930-45 maintaining & doing rituals at a top-secret
shrine for Dan-gun, San-shin and other "National Patriarchs" in the deep forest on Man-i Mountain
on Kanghwa Island (big island just west of Seoul). He and friends risked torture-to-death if caught,
but they never were. He took us there in 1990, shortly before his passing (but he climbed to the
400-m peak!); the old shrine still exists, ceremonies are still performed there regularly.
After the Korean War, there was recovery and great expansion of San-shin practices. The only
direct effect from the Japanese that i can tell is that their policies & actions drastically spurred the
development of Korean nationalism / patriotism, and that has surely benefited San-shin who is
spiritual Patriarch / Matriarch of the nation. Again, see my http://www.san-shin.org/seongmo1.html
#45: Linda Castellani (castle) Tue 21 May 2002
Oh! Is there a Korean version of the I Ching?
#46: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 2002
I'm glad to hear that Taekwondo has returned to its Korean roots. I was always puzzled by that martial
art, because it seemed very "hard" and yet I was told that a very old Taekwondo master moved in
extremely soft ways. I studied Japanese martial arts for eight years, and I have studied Chinese
for about two and a half years. My teacher said that the original karate was intended to be soft, but it
had been changed or corrupted into this very "hard" form later, which to him was a corruption of the
original form.
Your description of the Japanese occupation parallels developments in Japan.
The original impetus behind the Meiji restoration was a progressive reform of Japanese society ---
the Meiji revolutionaries were samurai, like my family, and they instituted a variety of liberal reforms,
including democracy, equality, the abolishing of the class system (including their own samurai
class!), and so forth. But over time this original idea was lost, and for a variety of reasons too
complicated to get into here, a strange corruption of Japanese culture occurred, and a militaristic
corrupted distortion of both the original ideals of the Meiji revolution as well as the ideals of the
original Japanese samurai came to power. As these fools took power, at first slowly (in the 10's and
20's) and then more quickly (in the 30's), the behavior of Japan abroad deteriorated, apparently,
corrupting and destroying foreign cultures --- but before they did that, they also corrupted and
destroyed their own Japanese culture. It makes me almost physically ill to think about it.
#47: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 21 May 2002
> Spirit of the Mountains is indeed a stunning book and I feel
> very privileged to have read it.
Thank-you very much Elisabeth Wickett, and welcome to our discussion!
> Are San-Shin stories told to modern children in Korea?
> Is the vivacity of the belief being passed on in that most
> basic of cultural ways? Or is it introduced to the young
> more culturally and religiously?
Well, San-shin appears in little children's story-books that retell old myths from the Sam-guk Yusa
and etc; those are not as popular as the Disney stuff of course but they are sold all around. Christian
parents would never buy them... Those tykes lucky enough to have grandparents from a rural
village who tells them bedtime stories... but i have no experience or specific knowledge of this.
> #42: Gerry Feeney (gerry)
> how much (if any) is taught in primary or secondary education?
Not much at all. Protestant Christians (20% of the population, but concentrated in professionals, gov
officials, other elite groups) have waged war against Korea's folk traditions for 50 years now, and
they are especially sensitive to what the kids are taught. Think of a teacher in a Kansas school at
Halloween, trying to get some Wicca across to her students... the reaction is similar.
Like in the USA, the religious/culture-wars and seperation-of-church-and-state-mandate has led to
kids not being taught much of anything at all that smacks of religion in public schools. And the only
private schools there are here are Christian. The result is college students amazingly ignorant of
religious traditions, even their own (and bring up Islam or Hinduism, fergitabowdit). That leaves them
quite vulnerable to on-campus recruitment by weird cults (like the famous Moonies) and extremeist/
fundamentalist Christian groups.
This always bugged me during my 12 years as a Prof. I tried to teach "overview of world religions"
and "Korean spiritual traditions" lecture/discussions in my English Conversation classes, try to make
an improvement. Some students were really turned-on, grateful; I even ran an after-hours "Sam-guk
Yusa In English Study Group" during my final two years, which was enthusiastically attended. It was
deliberately modeled after the many on-campus after-hours "Bible In English Study Group"s which so
many Korean students use to practice their English (even if they aren't really Christian)(yet). I just
switched the text, to the "bible" of Korean traditions...
At that time i had a really good prof job at the rural-mountain campus of Korea's academically-best
university, Yonsei (i got my MA in K Studies from their main campus in Seoul). But, that school was
founded 110 years ago by American protestant missionaries. They still take their Christian identity
very seriously. So, there were complaints, from both students and other profs.
Just when I came up for tenure, i was abruptly fired (with zero due-process) for "teaching
inappropriate things to the students". They said that as i'm a real american, i was expected to teach
only *american* culture (meaning, to them, protestant beliefs if any religion at all) in my classes or
after-hours groups.
That's right, can ya believe it?,
i was thrown out of a top Korean university for preaching Korean culture!
The irony never stops...
#48: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Tue 21 May 2002
As I understand it, Christianity was seen to be anti-Japanese, and it does seem terribly ironic that
part of the legacy of the destruction of true Japanese culture that the militarists engaged in was the
lasting resistance amongst some Koreans to their *own* culture.
#49: (fom) Tue 21 May 2002
> Japanese Shinto (shamanic, but Emperor-centered) was harshly imposed
That would be the subset called "State Shinto," right?
Not all Shinto is Emperor-centered, as I understand it.
#50: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
Right, (fom). The militarists kidnapped Shinto in the 1920s / 30s.
I don't know how centralized it is now, nor how tied in to Emperor-cult stuff.
Don't know nearly as much about Japan as i should, or would like to.
For example, i still have never been to Mt. Fuji...
just too damn expensive to travel there even tho i'm right next-door.
> #45: Linda Castellani (castle)
> Oh! Is there a Korean version of the I Ching?
No, not a separate version. The Koreans call it the Ju-yeok [Changes of the Chou (dynasty)],
imported it along with the rest of Chinese civilization starting around 2000 years ago. Famous
philosophers like Yi Toegye studied its layers of commentaries and added some of their own.
It's still used by some fortune-tellers, still studied by the educated.
A decade ago a powerful abbot gave my former wife and I a rare hardcover 3-volume printing of the
Commentary on the I Ching written by a great Korean Zen Master around 1930. We always hoped to
translate it to English -- together, we had that ability. Wouldda been quite fascinating! But then she
got busy working, and then we divorced...
Trigrams and Hexagrams frequently appear on Joseon-dynasty gates, altar-frames, artworks and big
bronze bells. Four trigrams appear on the National Flag, of course, making it the world's most
philosophical flag, and my favorite. Patriotic Independence-fighter An Chang-ho originally put all
eight on it, but was persuaded that it looked too cluttered.
One thing i've long noticed is that in all these San-shin icons i study,
no artist has put the trigram for the Mountain {Keeping Still}
------
-- --
-- -- into one. They should...
#51: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Wed 22 May 2002
Even some Emperor-worshippers like Ueshiba (founder of the pacifist martial art Aikido) thought the
militarists were complete idiots.
One of the things which struck me about your book was the vast range of different styles
represented in the various paintings. I am curious to know if you feel there is a particular traditional
style or technique for painting these San-shin images which is the "most" traditional? Are there
different "schools" of San-shin painting, or do the artists simply individually decide how they are
going to depict the deity?
#52: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
Individually. No "schools" that I've yet discerned. There are some conventions followed as you can
see, but within those bounds each artist does as s/he likes on each painting -- that's why even with
thousands extant, no two of the big ones are the same (only the very simple smaller ones used by
low-class shamans are exact replicas, they may even be produced in batches on a printing-press).
Of course some artists are distinctive, with consistent colors and motifs and quirks, and i've seen
the same guy's work in several different temples, even in different provinces (well, it's a small
country). Sometimes an artist is commissioned to do a San-shin based on a vision or special dream
of a monk or shaman; naturally, those are more unique. It's extra-exciting to find one of those.
#53: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Wed 22 May 2002
> #47:
> Just when I came up for tenure, i was abruptly fired (with zero due-process) for
> "teaching inappropriate things to the students".
> ... That's right, can ya believe it?, i was thrown out of a top Korean university
> for preaching Korean culture! The irony never stops...
How terrible! I am incredibly saddened (though somehow not surprised) to hear of that.
The narrow-mindedness of many Christians would probably bring Jesus Christ himself to tears.
#54: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Wed 22 May 2002
David, this may be a slight digression from our topic, but I would appreciate it if you could explain
the difference between Confucisnsism and Neo-Confucianism. I'm roughly familiar with the
teachings of Kong Fu Tse, and some of the practices that followed from them, such as ancestor
worship, but before reading your book, I'd never heard the term Neo-Confuscianism before.
Could you shed some light on that for those of us who don't know?
#55: Jim Fisher (fishjim) Wed 22 May 2002
Hello David,
I just finished Spirit of the Mountains, and want to congratulate you on a comprehensive and
fascinating study. I can see why local academics might feel threatened -- any thesis based on 15
years of primary research is bound to be substantial. And to see a foreigner get there first!
One thing I'm curious about, seeing how San-shin was sometimes hybridized with Chinese geomantic
philosophies -- i.e. that "the earth is alive with ji-ki ... which concentrates in lines and pools
according to geological and geographical conditions" (p.148) -- is whether there you found any
evidence of San-shin being associated with mineral prospecting -- be it for precious metals, hot
springs, petroleum, what have you. It seems to me that identifying mineral deposits often owes as
much to good fortune as to science, so I'm curious if San-shin was ever invoked along these lines.
#56: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
> #53 of 55: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Wed 22 May
> I am incredibly saddened (though somehow not surprised) to
> hear of that. The narrow-mindedness of many Christians
> would probably bring Jesus Christ himself to tears.
I'm sure it would. The Catholics, at least, are more tolerant than the Prots... On my "Links" page
there's one to the writings of my old friend Frank Tedesco, with an article detailing a whole long
string of violent & political attacks by Christians against Buddhism and Buddhist temples in Korea.
He made sure it got to all the big Christian leaders here, asking for a collective public denunciation
of such (and even apology?) but they never made any response at all.
5 years ago, as part of the neo-traditionalist movement that i love to monitor & encourage here, a
nationalist/religion group put up the money and energy to install less-than-life-size statues of
mythical Founder-King of Ancient Korea Dan-gun [2333 BCE; son of a Son of the Emperor of Heaven,
after they reigned for 1211 years Dan-gun retired as the San-shin of Mysterious Fragrance Mountain
in north K] in the courtyard/playground of every Elementary School in the land. Some teachers would
lead their class in a bow of respect (NOT "worship") in front of it. Before they got too far with this,
the was a nasty reaction from the Prots, who got the gov to stop it. Some of the statues were
beheaded at night; no arrests were ever made.
#57: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
> #54 of 56: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Wed 22 May '02
> I would appreciate it if you could explain the difference between
> Confucisnsism and Neo-Confucianism.
Gee, i've never even heard of "Confucisnsism"... you must be confusnsed... :-)
> I'm roughly familiar with the teachings of Kong Fu Tse, and some
>of the practices that followed from them, such as ancestor worship,
Are these rituals really "worship" or just paying due respect? Hot topic here for 110 years,
still debated back and forth... Families are divided at holiday time, as Confucian male members
want to do it but Protestant female members insist to not. The Catholics made their peace with
it long ago, bless 'em.
> but before reading your book, I'd never heard the term
> Neo-Confuscianism before.
Really? it's very commonly used in academia, it's the standard label although some profs
dispute it's use of course; they dispute all.
> Could you shed some light on that for those of us who don't know?
Confucianism refers to the teachings of Master Kong in the 5th Cen BCE, the late Chou Dynasty, in
which he created a traditionalism out of Earlier Chou-dynasty culture, and urged Kings of the day to
rule with Benevolence (human-heartedness, goodness, virtue) rather than brute force & raw
exploitation. A message still needed in our world.
Mencius and other thinkers amplified his message and added stronger & systematic moral teachings
at the chaotic end of the Chou. In the Han Dynasty 200 BCE - 200 CE, Confucianism was co-opted by
being selected as the Official State Doctrine and supplemented with an early metaphysical structure,
I Ching -type fortune-telling, etc. It then waned for 1000 years as Buddhism (and Religious Daoism)
took over and dominated all new thought.
Neo-Confucianism is what we call the teachings of Chu-hsi [Chuxi] around 1200 and their
modifications until now. Chu was a great genius-scholar of the Sung Dynasty who synthesized
the teachings of 5/6/7 great thinkers of the generation or two before him, compiling and explaining
their ideas into what would become the basic textbooks of Chinese thought for 600 years or so.
He/they incorporated the best of Daoist and Buddhist metaphysics, ethics and contemplative
techniques into the Confucian structure, creating a grand holistic worldview, guide for
government & education, and way-of-life.
Kublai Khan adopted Neo-Confucianism as the Official State Doctrine of the Yuan (Mongol) Empire
in 1313, and it remained so throughout the subsequent Ming and Ching Dynasties, until western
ideas took over China in the 20th Century.
An Hyang brought the Neo-Confucianist teachings to Korea in the 14th Cen, they spread rapidly
among the elite and prompted the overthrow of the Buddhist Koryeo Dynasty. Neo-Confucianism
took over Korea in a radical fire-breathing way, like communism took over Russia, China etc.
But it was loosely implemented outside of the Capital City area for 1400-1650. After that, it was taken
strictly everywhere in Korea for 250 years. Buddhism and Shamanism were suppressed...
#58: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Wed 22 May 2002
> Gee, i've never even heard of "Confusnianism"... you must be confusnsed... :-)
Yes, I am. Sorry for all those ugly typos...
#59: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
And i must add -- the whole point of Neo-Confucianism was SUPPOSED to be Self-cultivation into
virtue all the way to enlightened Sage-hood, harmonious well-functioning families, community
solidarity, pious frugality and use of surpluses to help the poor, education for all, ritual-respect
leading to sincere conduct, peaceful minds and voluntary social order, freedom of investigation
& opinion, and really good governance. The major books are still very inspirational to read,
often really right-on -- remarkably "modern" philosophy without mysticism or superstition.
but the REALITY of Neo-Confucianism turned out to be oppressive patriarchy, maintenance of
wealthy aristocracy obsessed with "pure bloodlines" like race-horses, monopoly of education
by the privileged, taxes squeezed out of the poor, slavery, stifling conformity of thought and
behavior, empty ritualism, bizarre archaic laws, paranoid witch-hunts to punish the 'disloyal'
and 'unorthodox', and utter stagnation of the economy.
Remarkably like Marxism :-)
#60: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
If interested, check out: http://faculty.washington.edu/mkalton/
An online introduction to the best of Korean Neo-Confucianism, incl the complete text of
_To Become a Sage_, a translation of the "Ten Diagrams on Sage Learning" by Korea's greatest
philosopher Yi Toegye (1501-1570). Translated, with extensive annotation and commentary,
by Michael C. Kalton. Published by Columbia University Press, 1988, now out of print so Kalton
generously put it up on the web.
Kalton is the best contemporary scholar on this area, he really "gets" Toegye's spiritual philosophy
down deep, and explains the difficult stuff in a very friendly, readable, understandable fashion.
He gave me a copy of this in 1989 and it really turned my interest on;
he permitted me to bootleg it to all the Yonsei Univ Grad-school of Korean Studies in 1991.
#61: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 22 May 2002
Welcome to the discussion, Jim Fisher (fishjim), and thanks for the supportive comments.
> #55 of 60:
> One thing I'm curious about, seeing how San-shin was sometimes
> hybridized with Chinese geomantic philosophies -- i.e. that "the
> earth is alive with ji-ki ... which concentrates in lines and
> pools according to geological and geographical conditions"
That Chinese feng-shui (Feng-shwae?) is called *pung-su-jiri* in Korea; imported directly and then
adapted to Korea's all-mountain terrain and weather. As i wrote, it was sometimes conflated with
San-shin beliefs but more often served as competitive with them.
> -- is whether there you found any evidence of San-shin being
> associated with mineral prospecting -- be it for precious metals,
> hot springs, petroleum, what have you. It seems to me that
> identifying mineral deposits often owes as much to good fortune
> as to science, so I'm curious if San-shin was ever invoked along
> these lines.
No, i've never seen anything like that. Pung-su & ji-ki theories used for that, sure. San-shin heavily
used by ginseng-hunters, tiger hunters and etc, sure. But not San-shin for the things you mention,
no, never heard of that.
#62: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Thu 23 May 2002
Yes, a similar thing happened to Buddhism in India --- Hinduism co-opted a lot of the best ideas
of Buddhism and then ended up supplanting it as a result. If Neo-Confucianism was what it was
supposed to be (a hybrid of Confucian and Buddhist and Taoist ideas) then it would have been
fine, but as you say the worst version of it (misinterpretation) became the standard.
I've finally come to the opinion that there is often this danger --- it's the Murphy's Law of religion
or culture --- if it can be misinterpreted, it will be.
Do you see any evidence for a resurgence of traditional Korean culture and/or Buddhist or Taoist
ideas in the intellectual class in recent years? As you know Buddhism and Taoism is becoming
quite popular among intellectuals here in the West at the moment.
#63: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Thu 23 May 2002
Sure, i know that -- i'm a part of it! ;-) Yet another suburban white kid reading the Tao Te & I Chings
and Zen explications back in 1976... And sure, yes, plenty of "evidence for a resurgence of
traditional Korean culture and/or Buddhist or Taoist ideas in the intellectual class in recent years".
All over.
Books by famous Zen Masters sell well. I've met quite a few middle-aged urban professionals who
study Daoism or Geomancy or Toegye or the Diamond Sutra in their free time. There's a copy of
somebody's commentary on the I Ching sitting on the desk of the Dean of the City College branch i
teach part-time at; he reads it over tea after lunch. Just two years ago some SNU prof gave a series
of lectures on the Tao Te Ching, late evening on the #1 national TV channel -- it was wildly popular
and he became a star. Followed up with another series on Chuang-tzu late last year, i think.
I wish those would be done with English sub-titles...
I'd like to minimally copy his success with a short series of half-hour shows on all aspects of the
San-shin, how it relates to many aspects of traditional culture here.
But Daoist and Buddhist ideas are much more acceptable to the PTB than is {the primitive
superstitions of} Mountain-spirits; they're established World Religions.
> it's the Murphy's Law of religion or culture --- if it can be misinterpreted, it will be.
This is very good, quite correct {sigh}. and doctrines can ALWAYS be misinterpreted...
thus Zen did away with them, right? It's an advantage of Mountain-worship -- no doctrines.
Just symbols connections, practices, direct experiences and perceptions...