On-line Interview on "the Inkwell" -- May/June 2002 -- Page Six
Inkwell.vue topic #150: David Mason: Spirit of the Mountains -- continued --
#147: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 04 Jun 2002
Meanwhile, Korea just had one of the biggest nights EVER in their history! Fair to say it was "the Woodstock of their generation" for all teenage & twenties South Koreans, something that they'll never forget. I was awed at the sight of 100,000 youngsters packed into the big intersection near where i work, all at such a fever-pitch of united emotion... Koreans are a famously morose grim- faced bunch, but *everybody* is smiling real wide this morning!
#148: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 04 Jun 2002
Sounds great! What was the occasion, David?
#149: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 04 Jun 2002
Uhmmmm... we're having a little event over here called "the World Cup", involving a game called "football" ("soccer" to you). Understandable that Americans aren't even aware it's going on -- tho a USA team is among the 32 competing -- but it is a BIG deal in the entire rest of the world, and most especially here, trust me. ;-)
South Korea had gotten into 5 World Cups before this, but never won a single game. Last night, with 99.9% of the nation watching (i can imagine even the mountain-Zen monks & San-shin Shamans i know were glued to a TV!), the South Korean team shut out Poland (a tough team! best in Eastern Europe...) 2-0, making it look easy. JOY is the ubiquitous result.
Ya hafta understand what this means for a nation that has suffered an inferiority complex for 2000 straight years, and is now starting to enter the ranks of the countries that really matter in this world and knows it... (at least the younger gen knows it deep down, wheras many of their elders remain with "we are humble losers" mentality).
#162: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sat 08 Jun 2002
I have a question for all of you reading this: up in responses #120-127 I posted about the "Chapter 4 stuff" -- the present situation and speculations on the future evolution of mountain-worship and the Korean Mountain-spirit. There wasn't any response to this at all, but I think it's the most interesting, provocative and controversial part of my work -- all the rest is just reporting on and summarizing what happened in the past.
So I'd like to hear some on what you think about what I said up there -- do you think i'm on track, does it make sense, is it possible? Can a traditional Shamanic/Folk spirit/deity become more of a symbol with modern utility in this world, like how I proposed?
Can you think any other examples where this has already happened...?
#163: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Sat 08 Jun 2002
Can San-Shin become a new symbol for a unified Korean culture? I suppose none of us unfamiliar with Korean culture could possibly imagine answering this or commenting in it more knowledgeably than you. I'd guess the biggest impediment, off the top of my head, is the penetration of Christian thought, and somewhat rigid versions of it, into the Korean intellectual class. They would surely resist this bitterly, and aren't they influential in Korea?
#164: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 10 Jun 2002
OK, OK ;-) but i'm still hoping for some discussion of the possibilities of this sortta thing (#127 above) happening -- and not just in Korea. Can you think any other examples where this sort of evolution of an ancient deity has already happened...? Do shamanism and its spirits have any place in 21st-Century global culture? (as the "major religions" that have dominated the past 1 or 2 millenia seem to be decaying, fraying...)
> I'd guess the biggest impediment, off the top of my head, is the > penetration of Christian thought, and somewhat rigid versions of > it, into the Korean intellectual class. They would surely resist > this bitterly, and aren't they influential in Korea?
Sure they are, and sure they would. They have already resisted quite bitterly, and even violently, as desrcibed above. Even in my current business, tourism.
More than a year ago I met with a high official of the Korea National Tourism Org, which sets tour- programs and conducts the regular promotions. I showed him my book and made a pitch for some tours & promotions that included San-shin art and traditions, arguing that many westerners would be interested. He loved the idea (and my book), but said "no way", that there are Protestants in high places in that Org who don't want any such thing shown to foreign guests, lest they look down on Korea as backwards...
#165: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 10 Jun 2002
>look down on Korea as backwards It's strange how little Koreans seem to understand about the reactions of Westerners --- they seem to have built a whole complex of ideas about what would appear "backward" to us, without really asking us ourselves. If anything appears backward to Westerners, it would be the suppression of religions, particularly ancient shamanic traditions which were once so central to Korean culture.
#166: (fom) Mon 10 Jun 2002
> Do shamanism and its spirits have any place in 21st-Century global culture?
I think so. I studied shamanism for several years in the 80s, mostly with a Native American shaman who was especially interested in the phenomenon of "shamans with PhDs" -- the growing number of people with a foot in both worlds, ancient and modern. She also emphasized the sophistication and complexity of shamanic thought, especially regarding psychology.
A couple of weeks ago, I attended a celebration of three women's receiving their PhDs from California Institute of Integral Studies, and the 150 or so people there -- maybe one-third white, one- third African American, one-third Latin-American, Native American, and Asian-American from several cultures -- would probably all agree that the insights of shamanism are very relevant (or even crucial) to 21st-century culture.
Also of note is the work being done by Michael Harner's Foundation for Shamanic Studies to assist with the reestablishment of shamanic traditions in several parts of the world; also some of the material published in the magazine Shaman's Drum, which has had several articles over the years about Korean shamans.
It seems to me that one strength of a shamanic approach is that like Buddhism, it's non-theist and not faith- or dogma-based, but instead rests on a series of discoveries and insights about the world that are attainable through practice and are continually questioned and tested.
#167: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 10 Jun 2002
That's very interesting to me, Felicity, thanks much. I'd like to talk with people like that, that come to Shamanism with more than just an anthropological approach. I never have had the chance...
I wonder if they would be interested in my work, tho, as it's not about the Shamans themselves, nor about what happens psychologically or socially during the spirit-contacting rituals, but about one particular spirit-- its symbolism and connections to other religions.
> Native American shaman who was especially interested in the > phenomenon of "shamans with PhDs" -- the growing number of people > with a foot in both worlds, ancient and modern.
Yeah, that's something quite new, and with fascinating possibilities. I studied with Brant Secunda and other Native-American-Shamanism types in the '79-85 period. A "spirit quest" trip in 1980 is where my "Mountain Wolf" login comes from -- 2 years before i even heard of Korea or was introduced to its San-shin...
> also some of the material published in the magazine Shaman's Drum, > which has had several articles over the years about Korean shamans.
Oh, that's good -- on Shamanic web-sites & such i've seen, Korean figures are noticeably absent -- which is weird, because it must be the most active & widespread & open Shamanic tradition on earth now! A million practitioners & participants in this small nation, colorful rituals happening every single day, incl on a mountain i can see clearly from my building right in the heart of downtown Seoul... who else has that? Most folks "into Shamanism" seem to love to focus on some 98-year- old bear-shin-clad guy in a remote Siberian village who's the last of his kind and now has one real "client" per year (as his tribe dwindles), while ignoring the real-world right-now stuff going on so openly here...
I used to know Timothy White, a co-founder of Shaman's Drum; we started and ran an I Ching Study Group in SF/Marin around 1979... later he moved on from I Ching to Shamanism. Are they on-line? Wonder if they'd have any interest in what i do...
> It seems to me that one strength of a shamanic approach is that > like Buddhism, it's nontheist and not faith- or dogma-based, but > instead rests on a series of discoveries and insights about the > world that are attainable through practice and are continually > questioned and tested.
I hadn't really thought about it this way... hmmmmmmm. *I* look at Shamanic deities as symbols of states or relationships, and so do some educated hip associated types, but real practitioners "really believe" that they "really exist" (in their own realm which often intersects with ours). Shamanism hasn't got much dogma attached to it, true, but doesn't it depend upon belief in the spirits, just as much as Christianity depends on belief in God Jesus & etc, and other religions depend on such...? (with the famous exception of Zen).
#168: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 10 Jun 2002
> #165 of 167: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 10 Jun > It's strange how little Koreans seem to understand about the reactions of Westerners --- > they seem to have built a whole complex of ideas about what would appear "backward" to us, > without really asking us ourselves.
Yeah. Although they do ask me sometimes (part of my job! :-) Not that anyone high up pays much attention to my answers, tho...
I constantly try to get across that if they go ahead and look/act Korean, and project personal & social comfort, confidence and pride while doing so, it'd result in increased respect and tourism from the world. But most of them have spent several generations acting painfully earnest about "being modern"; they stay in that rut.
When you see the countries where elite urban people still wear their own clothing and display other ethnic customs, even tho they can *afford* suits and ties (and wear them when visiting the West), like Malaysia, Indonesia, Butan, Arabia, etc, don't you feel more respect for them and their cultures...? I think i do. The movement of wearing modernized (convenient) Korean-style clothing (which my ex-wife helped to start!) has taken root here, but only slowly; you still can't see it downtown except on artists and tea-folk and some workers like bank-clerks. Never on anybody powerful; they stay locked in their latest-American-fashion suits. I don't wear a tie to the office much, usually have a Chinese I-Ching medallion or a Korean Mask-Dance-mask bolo around my neck, a small gesture. But i'm alone; all the Korean men in this big Tourism building wear ties.
> If anything appears backward to Westerners, it would be the > suppression of religions, particularly ancient shamanic traditions > which were once so central to Korean culture.
Well, "Westerners like us" surely, but keep in mind there are plenty of narrow-minded businessmen and missionaries and etc in America who still base their respect for foreign countries on how closely the natives look and act "like us", discarding their "weird" beliefs & practices and "funny-looking" clothes. I meet plenty right here, working for the Embassy or company branches or the US Army. You wouldn't believe some of the right-wing-yahoo comments they make...
#169: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Wed 12 Jun 2002
>narrow-minded
True, to a large extent, though these days I think the attitude even among the general public is quite different from what it might have been, say, a hundred or even fifty years ago. For example, I doubt there are lots of Westerners who would say that the Dalai Lama is "backward" because he practices a version of Buddhism (Tibetan) with many integrated shamanistic elements (Bon). I think Americans especially these days --- and perhaps in most eras (except perhaps for some missionaries) --- tend to think what truly makes for a modern nation is religious freedom, not suppression of any specific religious tradition.
I just want to say, David, that I've enjoyed this conversation a great deal, and I am glad to have had the opportunity to read your book and get to know something about this Korean cultural tradition. This is not to end the conversation here, just to make sure this has been said.
#170: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 12 Jun 2002
Thanks for saying it! :-) I also have enjoyed this... and will keep the link to this permanently on my web-site, as it's a great record of statements forming a context around my book.
I think you're right, too, that most Americans "tend to think what truly makes for a modern nation is religious freedom", but also this stands in contrast to and struggle with the American version of the Taliban, who enjoy quite a bit of influence in the halls of Washington power and millions of followers nationwide. Same as in S Korea. I think this contrast/struggle is growing hotter all over the world as the fundamentalist sorts feel backed into corners by "secularism" and religious freedom. It'll continue to be as much of a source of political & bloody conflict as is economic issues are... the future of human society hangs in the balance.
#171: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Thu 13 Jun 2002
Although I get the impression that Christianity was considered fashionable among intellectuals and the elites in Korea, perhaps partly because it was perceived as anti-Japanese, whereas fundamentalist Christianity is certainly unpopular among intellectuals here, and those in the elites who practice Christianity here tend to practice a relatively liberalized version of it.
Further, in the States, particularly in the last ten or fifteen years or so, Buddhism and other "alternative" religious practices (Native American spirituality, for example) have become fashionable among intellectuals here. The Dalai Lama has a nearly perfect reputation among Americans, for example, whether deserved or not --- even in mainstream popular parlance, to refer to the Dalai Lama is to invoke a symbol of honesty, peace, spirituality, etc. I.e., one might say in everyday parlance something like "he's no Dalai Lama" or whatever.
Or another example might be someone like Phil Jackson, whose Lakers recently won their third championship --- his nickname is "Zen Master", and he is well-known to have his team members meditate (yes, they actually do it), and he is widely reported to be enamored of Native American spirituality. Sure, some old-fashioned sports figures might make fun of him for this, but the fact is, for the most part, the public and the press tends to look at least bemusedly if not favorably on his "Zen" style of coaching.
Of course, Buddhism and other alternative spiritual practices might have some currency among elites here specifically because of a reaction against fundamentalist flavors of Christianity. Whereas a subtly different dynamic seems to be at play in Korea, based on what you've been saying here, although you say it has been changing --- at least that's the impression I am getting. What do you think of this?
#173: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Fri 14 Jun 2002
> Christianity was considered fashionable among intellectuals and the elites in Korea,
Was and Is.
> perhaps partly because it was perceived as anti-Japanese,
Actually, that worked in a funny way. The original Catholic/Prot missionaries worked to help Korea keep its independence. But when that failed after 1905, the 2nd generation of missionaries counseled just going along with the authorities, y'know, "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's" etc. After all, they were concerned with "saving souls" first of all, not politics, and they didn't want to be kicked out. It was the Korean believers themselves, with their first generation of homegrown Korean ministers, who turned some churches into nationalist havens & activist-centers -- often against the opposition of the local foreign missionary.
> whereas fundamentalist Christianity is certainly unpopular among > intellectuals here, and those in the elites who practice > Christianity here tend to practice a relatively liberalized version of it.
North California and NYC/Boston certainly, but are you sure that this applies to St Louis & Atlanta & Chicago & Virginia...?
#175: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Fri 14 Jun 2002
> Of course, Buddhism and other alternative spiritual practices > might have some currency among elites here specifically because > of a reaction against fundamentalist flavors of Christianity.
Yes, i think that's true. People look for a more practical, grounded and effective (and maybe exotic) alternative.
> Whereas a subtly different dynamic seems to be at play in Korea, > based on what you've been saying here, although you say it has > been changing --- at least that's the impression I am getting. > What do you think of this?
Sure, it's very different. Hard-line Neo-Confucianism left Korea an extremely hierachical classist sexist -- and stagnant -- society. Christianity was revolutionary in its radical equality of everyone (incl women), the preference for the poor, etc. That was extremely appealing for intellectuals, progressive young generations, democracy activists, etc. Whereas Eastern ways of thought have been associated with the hidebound vested-interests conservatives.
It is only just now that equality and democracy are such a "given" for the new generation that they're not tied to any religion, and progressive activist 20-somethings can find much of value in Daoism & Buddhism (zen psychology & 'Green' perspectives), and even in Shamanism & other "ancient" nationalisms (national identity, folk-culture, nature-consciousness).
#176: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Fri 14 Jun 2002
> is Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church of any influence in Korea?
The Short Answer: used to be, due to his strong anti-communism and emphasis on the re-unification of Korea. The military governments tolerated him, used him, were used by him. He used to play golf regularly with Kim Jong-pil -- "the brains behind" the 1961 coup and 18-year Park Cheong-hee reign. For awhile he was one of the few S Koreans that northern dictator Kim Il-sung would deal with.
The Moonies still own a lot of businesses and real-estate here, have some Professors on their side, etc. But his drive to have the U C accepted as a Christian church has mostly failed, as all the other Christian churches reject them. Anti-communism doesn't get you even a cup of coffee anymore. Lots of businessmen and religious leaders are talking to Pyeongyang, trying to make deals. Kim Jong-pil is FINALLY all washed up (as of just *yesterday*) after *40 years* at the top of the S Korean political snakepit. And, most of all, Moon is real old now, and his "church" empire will probably fall apart after him -- looks like a one-generation cult, tho a remarkably successful one...
One social-impact thing the U C is still active in is matching up & marrying cross-race couples, mostly poor desperate Korean men with poor desperate Chinese & SE-Asian women. Most of them are not U C believers, tho, but just go along to get a spouse. When the girls discover the ugly reality here in Korea, they get pretty angry, some run... Many other churches are doing this lucrative business now too, not just the Moonies. My (Filipina) wife knows quite a few of these cases by now, involving Filipinas. Not one of the unions is happy or stable :-(
#177: mother of my eyelid (frako) Fri 14 Jun 2002
Finally, my question "Why are so many Koreans Christian?" has been answered.
#178: Pseud Impaired (mitsu) Mon 17 Jun 2002
Yeah, the perversions of Confucianism are quite terrible. To a large extent that's what attracts me to Buddhism --- there aren't many religions that have in their most revered records statements like "don't believe things just because they're traditionally believed, or because some old monk said it was the case" (the Kalama Sutra, quoting the founder, Shakyamuni), or "there is no ignorance, no end of ignorance, no old age and death, no end of old age and death; no suffering, no origin of suffering, no cessation of suffering, no path, no wisdom, no attainment, and no non-attainment" (Heart Sutra).
On the other hand, even Buddhism gets distorted and misused, despite these sorts of admonitions --- it's obviously very difficult to avoid. Seems to be just a general problem (the distortion and misuse of almost every sort of thought system and religion).
In 17 years things have changed somewhat here; what was once fringe is now pretty mainstream, etc. Some intellectuals in America have long been interested/influenced by Eastern thought and religions, going back to the Transcendentalists, but now that you can find big sections on Eastern philosophy in every Borders, Waldenbooks, and Barnes and Noble, it's diffused pretty broadly in the intellectual classes now.
> middle America
Well, what I am talking about is the class that corresponds to the elites in Korea who were attracted to Christianity. Fundamentalism might be a major political force here in the states, but it's generally speaking coming from rural populations, the less educated, etc. Well-educated people, even if they might be Christian, are much less likely to be fundamentalists, against other religions, consider shamanism to be something to be suppressed, etc. Those sorts of notions are pretty solidly associated here with a more backward attitude.
This does seem different from the situation as you describe it in Korea, inasmuch as there seem to be powerful people in the intellectual class who actually appear to favor those sorts of suppressive attitudes that we here in America would tend to associate with the less well-educated.
So those Koreans who are worried that they ought to suppress shamanism in order to impress America will certainly be giving people the exact opposite impression. Perhaps they'd find allies among our less educated people, but is that who they really want to be impressing?
#179: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 18 Jun 2002
No, it isn't. But the determining thing is, they're not really thinking about us and what we'd like to see -- instead they're self-oriented, thinking about what they want to show us. People like me are trying to change that, but... the opinions of non-powerful non-Koreans just don't carry much weight. And then there are the Korean Protestants...
I'm not so sure that the USA is as different as Mitsu thinks, outside of northern California anyway. Jeeez-us, look at the administration now in power, Mr. Ashcroft out front. I'd say that the USA now has a "Protestant Christian government" which is doing all it can to impose its values on the nation and even the rest of the world, as far as the current interpreters of the Constitution will let them get away with.
There was just an article in the IHT today about how the Bush Admin is working in strong alliance at the UN & etc with the Vatican and conservative / fundamentalist Muslims (like Iran, Sudan, Saudis) to enact a monotheist-religion-based social-reactionary agenda (anti- gay's, women's and children's rights). Powerful Korean Protestants may be suppressing exposure of native Shamanism, but overall the S.Korean gov is far more socially liberal that the current American gov, less religiously biased and *better protective of civil rights*. I'm sad to say...
#180: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 18 Jun 2002
But Mitsu is quite right about the widespread acceptance of/ respect for Eastern religions & philosophies & teachers throughout the US (and European) highly-educated classes. I was a part of that in the 70's and early 80's...
In Korea there are now many *highly* educated people, but very few of them are *well*-educated. The style of most all schools is still authoritarian and memorization-oriented; few are taught to "think for themselves" at all. This leaves young adults wide-open vulnerable to cult-leaders of all sorts (incl the Moonies and fundamentalist Christians and, 15 years ago, Marxists); they make good followers & true-believers. And, they make very strict/sincere/dilligent Zen monks, if they end up following that better path...
#181: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 18 Jun 2002
It's 11:30 PM here, and the entire nation is in pandemonium once again (for the 4th time in 2 weeks!). Maybe 3 million people out on the streets, screaming & crying & chanting & celebrating -- it's awesome to witness. 30 min ago, Korea beat Italy 2-1 in the second round! They defeated Portugal last Friday; Portugal and Italy are two of the six best teams in the world, now they're both going home while lowly Korea (ranked #40) goes to the top 8. Didn't get it by luck, either, but tough, relentless, skillful play. Winning their first World Cup game ever on June 4th was wonderful, but this is getting beyond belief...!!! I'd like to think that the spiritual power of their mountains is behind these victories... :-)
#187: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Thu 20 Jun 2002
Hey, bet that you didn't even know that Korea has it's own "Temple of Heaven". Few do. It does, but hidden on the grounds of a 5-star hotel in the center of downtown Seoul. They're holding a formal dinner next to it tonight, with ceremony, and i have to dash off to that now with my wife. Here, if you're interested, is part of a speech i just wrote for my boss to give there:
“This very place where we are dining tonight is actually a highly meaningful and historical site. As you probably know, the Japanese imperialists took over Korea in a step-by-step fashion over a 15- year stretch, from 1895 to 1910. Back in 1897, just a hundred and five years ago, they forced the Korean government to declare itself independent from its feudal semi-subordinate relationship with China, as a first major step towards absorbing Korea themselves.
“The name of our country was changed from the Joseon Dynasty Kingdom to Daehan-jeguk, or the "Great Korean Empire". King Gojong was enthroned as an "Emperor" instead of a mere "King", putting him on an equal status with the Chinese and Japanese Emperors, in theory. You see, there is this difference in rank between king and emperor – a king only worships the Earth and the Grain Spirit, as was done for 500 years at the Sajik Shrine to the northwest of here. An emperor is authorized to conduct worship of Heaven itself, as he was regarded as Heaven's progeny.
“Therefore this Wongu-dan or "Temple of Heaven" was constructed here, so that Emperor Gojong could act as "the son of Heaven", performing the Spring and Autumn ceremonies praying for good harvests for all of Korea. The actual stone altar for animal sacrifices was just over there, where the Ninth Gate Restaurant and hotel lobby now are. This building here, reconstructed after our Liberation, is called the Hwang-gung-gu and was the site of Emperor Gojong's prayers to Heaven itself, which was regarded as his ultimate royal ancestor.
“It is loosely modeled after the very famous "Temple of Heaven" in Beijing, although that one is round and this one is eight-sided and smaller. The entire shrine-complex was designed to symbolize the various natural elements of the Universe, such as mountains, rivers, the sun and moon, and so on. This site right between Bugak-san and Nam-san mountains was chosen by the royal geomancers as highly auspicious by the ancient principles of Korean Geomancy [pung-su jiri]. They determined that this small hilltop was shaped like a ceremonial table piled high with offertory foods for exactly this kind of ritual, and was thus a place of Good Fortune.
“The Japanese authorities tore down the entire Temple of Heaven in 1913, after their conquest was completed. The Chosun Bando Hotel, which was Korea’s first modern-style public accommodations, was built over its ruins, right where this Westin Chosun Hotel now proudly stands. Since this site is still an auspicious one according to geomancy, any guests who eat, drink and sleep here will receive the blessings of Heaven. So, that’s the real reason we invited you for dinner here this evening, to give you a dose of Good Fortune :-)
“Tonight, we have arranged for you to watch a re-creation of the "Go-cheon-je", the profound ceremony praying to Heaven, in the hope that our co-hosting of the 2002 World Cup Finals will be a success, and that this traditional ceremony will be taken over and developed into one of Korea’s living Cultural Heritage performances. Mr. Jang Gyeon-jak, the President of Westin Chosun Hotel and Mr. Jo Hong-gyu, the President of KNTO and I have agreed that the "Go-cheon-je" should be revived in regular Spring and Autumn performances, to let foreign visitors and even our own citizens know more of our unique and excellent traditional culture.
“The role of Je-ju or leading official of this ceremony, which would have been the Emperor of Korea, will be performed by Mr. Yi Seok, who happens to be the actual oldest surviving heir to the Joseon- Dynasty throne. 20 men will be making the offerings, and they will be supported by the traditional teams of 22 musicians & 36 dancers.
“So, this ceremony employs a total of 80 participants. It will proceed in several stages according to our ancient Confucian traditions, and you will be informed of the actions and their meanings as they are performed. It’s really the same kind of ritual that we Koreans perform for our own ancestors on Lunar New Year’s Day & Chuseok.” See photos of this event here.
#188: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Mon 24 Jun 2002
Allow me to blather just a bit more....I had an interesting day on this last Saturday.
Permit me to explain the background: The Rooster-Dragon Mountain has been one of Korea's most sacred for all its history. Esp the southern slope, a sheer drop below an 850-m peak. The legendary geomancer-monk who set up Seoul as the capital of the Joseon Dynasty in 1400 predicted that the NEXT dynasty would be established 500-600 years later with its palace on that slope. So, it attracted many Mountain-Spirit-worshipping monks & shamans over the last five centuries, hoping to spiritually kick-start the foundation of a new, stronger kingdom.
Twenty years ago, the Military Government of South Korea decided to move their official Army HQ base out of Seoul, and chose THAT site (just a coincidence, i'm sure! ;-). It's said they kicked 15,000 shamans & monks & others off the land, destroying hundreds of shrines & temples. Pity that i didn't get to visit there in 1983 (but who knew?). High-security top-secret HQ base now, called Kye-ryong- dae [Rooster-Dragon Platform]; no public access, no photos.
Since i found out about all this 14 years or so ago, i’ve waited for a chance to go there, and finally the chance came. My friend Ryu, professor of "Cultural Geography", got a connection with a General, and we made an appointment for a tour to see the Sacred San-shin Sites there. A sergeant in charge of the base's security, real Rambo sort, escorted and guided us for 5 hours in his jeep and on foot.
We saw the famous "Male Dragon Pool" & "Female Dragon Pool" (with waterfalls) and the sites of some major shrines & temples (with only foundation-stones remaining). He let me take all the photos i wished. He insisted that all Mountain-worship activity there had been stopped for 20 years --- but then i found a fresh candle in a stone niche next to the Male Dragon Pool -- oooops. He said a soldier must have left it there... :-)
We had to quit by 2, as THE BIG GAME was on at 3:30 and even Military Security had to be in front of a TV (North Korea could've invaded at 5pm, their tanks rolling down thru the capital, and nobody would've paid any attention unless the electricity was cut). Prof Ryu went home to cheer with his family and we drove around to the west side of the mountain, near "Spirit Garden" Temple, where my new friend "Charlie" lives. He's a 50-yr-old Korean guy with long white hair who lives in a hermitage there, performing "Ki (spirit-energy) Healing" with his hands. There are lots of Shamans like him living all around Rooster-Dragon Mountain, practicing the powers they gain from years of San-shin devotions, but Charlie is unique among them because he can speak English well (lived in San Diego for a few yrs).
So we sat with him and girlfriend in his shack, with a good view of the holy peaks out the door, sipping rice-wine & watching Korea upset Spain on his small TV. We chanted to the Kye-ryong San- shin when things looked rough, whooped it up loudly when Korea did well. Celebrated over BBQ pork after the Korean team achieved its hard-fought Victory, then headed home to Seoul on unusually light-traffic highways -- everybody else still dancin' in the streets.
Yeah, my life here is not such a common one. Kinda strange... :-)
BTW, on this subject: I have finally posted some photos from the 2001 Mt. Rooster-Dragon Mountain- Spirit Ceremonial Festival [Kye-ryong-san San-shin-je], my favorite annual event here and Korea's biggest, most religiously-diverse Mountain-worshipping event. See: http://www.san-shin.org/kyeryong1.html
#189: Andrew Alden (alden) Mon 24 Jun 2002
Cool story! Are there photos of Rooster-Dragon Mountain online? What is its name in Korean?
#190: mother of my eyelid (frako) Mon 24 Jun 2002
Excellent photos!
#191: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Mon 24 Jun 2002
I second that. David, I've been thinking a lot on the question of what role San-shin can play in Korea's future, especially on the matter of reunification. My thoughts are still incubating....
#201: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 25 Jun 2002
> #198 of 199: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 25 Jun '02 > ... the *spirit* of Tae Kwon Do ...
> It seems to me that the Korean football players exhibit that spirit > also. That led me to wonder, are these values limited to martial > arts, or are they promoted in other sports and in society at large?
Well, sure, those are all key characteristics that Koreans highly value and (used to) try to raise their kids to embrace...
> 1. Modesty > 3. Self-Control
These are classical Confucian values. They used to be strongly practiced / enforced, and are still widely seen in Korean society. Koreans love to watch America's brash culture (even the hip-hop crap that's as anti-modesty as you can get!), but most don't think it's right for them.
However, as society is ever more sharply wide-open competitive, in an Anglo-American sink-or-swim-on-your-own way, some parents are reported to be raising their kids to be outspoken brats & braggarts, elbows-out, as that type is seen to be "Winners", as in politics. Better that my kid is a bully than becomes a victim of the bullies, they say. This makes me sad, "eyeing the future so full of dread".
> 2. Perseverance > 4. Indomitable Spirit
How do you differentiate between these two....?
They are certainly on display with our soccer team and fans. Really tho, it kinda developed as a Korean trait due to their continuous refusal to defend themselves with an effective standing army. Others kept invading and swiftly conquering, but the Koreans would then not submit, but take to the hills and wage guerilla war, never giving up despite painful losses but harassing the invaders for years until they finally left... like Hezbollah or something.
This spirit has its bad side tho, manifesting as dug-in stubbornness. And harassment, as boys trying to date a girl turn into stalkers, never taking NO for an answer, because their parents told them "Quitters never win, and winners never quit" and so on...
#202: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Wed 26 Jun 2002
> #199 of 201: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Tue 25 Jun '02 > On the one hand, I get the impression that Koreans are one of > the most homogenous peoples on earth, perhaps even more so > than the Japanese.
This notion is way oversold by the Koreans themselves, for reasons of national-identity-building. Genetically, they are a mix of the aboriginal Polynesians (stone-age) with the Manchurians, variations of Chinese, Mongolians and Japanese that marauded through in waves for the past 3 or 4000 years; and you can see those distinct strains in the variety of faces on the street. This has little to do with how Koreans themselves consciously divide themselves up into groups, tho. But it seems to have a lot to do with long-term social class, however, my informal but extensive observations show -- the more brown-skinned and narrow-faced tend to be the poor, while whiter skin (sometimes REALLY "white") and rounder faces are found among the wealthy and highly-placed. And i don't just mean that farmers are tanned from being in the sun more...
But Koreans believe they are "one race", there's no question about it, they're quite attached to the notion. Ethnically, they are one distinct group, with little way for untrained foreigners to pick out the provincial differences in accent & custom that are so important to them (but are less evident in and important to the younger generations, as TV-led homogeneity proceeds).
> Are there just three, or are there more in the North? > Are these in fact ethnicities? If so, what is the basis for them?
Well, y'see, there were 8 Provinces of old Korea -- Gyeongsang-do, Jeolla-do including Cheju Island, Chung-cheong-do, Gyeonggi-do & Gangwon-do (which together pretty much make up South Korea); and Hwanghae-do, Hamgyeong-do and Pyeong-an-do (which together pretty much make up North Korea, together with some extra northern land which used to be the fringe of Manchuria).
The genesis of "Korean Culture" is the Three Kingdoms era about 100-665 CE --- Gyeongsang-do was the Shilla Kingdom, Jeolla-do, Chung-cheong-do & Gyeonggi-do was the Baek-jae Kingdom, and all northern areas along with most of Manchuria was the mighty Kogu-reo Kingdom. Gangwon-do ["Origin of the Rivers"] was a large no-man's mountainous wilderness, and Jeju Island was a "primitive" place that retained shamanic culture and escaped much direct rule by Koreans until the late 18th cen.
Each of these Provinces had its own accent and vocabulary-quirks, and differences of customs, mannerisms & character. Outsiders have to look hard to figure the differences out, but the Koreans play them up in order to promote their own group and despise the others. Weird, petty and destructive. Still today, those from the Jeolla (aka Honam) region are discriminated against, esp by the Gyeongsang (aka Yeong-dong) folks, who have mostly run things for a long time. Thus it was a big deal when Kim Dae-jung was elected as the first National Leader from the Jeolla region, 5 years ago, almost as big as American getting a black President... (Kim is also Catholic, another social minority, so that added a bit).
Television and modern/standardized education is fuzzing out these provincial differences, as a deliberate policy, even on Jeju Island. South Koreans are getting more similar to each other, esp as 30% of the entire population lives in & around Seoul. Young folks care much less than their parents about Provincial origins, and politics seems to be *slowly* changing away from being based on that. Honam and Yeong-dong youths can even marry each other now, with little "scandal" being made of it, the parents just keep quiet.
I hear that the same ethnic-unification is going on in the North.
Of course, South and North Korea are ethnically SEPERATING with every year that goes by, turning into fairly different groups, maybe like Americans and Australians. The South gets all its cultural influence and new vocabulary from USA & Japan & Europe, the North from China (and a bit from Russia). The longer this goes on, the tougher the eventual re-unification will be...
#215: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Thu 27 Jun 2002
> #207 of 211: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Thu 27 Jun '02 > David, could you expand on that a little? My hunch was that it > [re-unification] might be easier for Koreans than it was for Germans, ...
It's widely pointed out that: A. The population ratio of West to East Germany was 3:1, while that of South to North Korea is 2:1 --- fewer "rich" people supporting more impoverished dependants.
B. East Germany was the richest out of all "2nd World" (communist) nations; N K is (now) the very poorest, on a level with black Africa. E G had a fair basic infrastructure going and no major social/health problem, tho they lacked competitive export industries; N K has pretty much NOTHING that's worth a fart in the modern world, and already has major starvation/malnutrition/health/social- breakdown/refugee crises going on. N K would have to be rebuilt from Zero.
C. West G was one of the richest and most industrially powerful of all nations on the globe, with vast pools of capital available. S K is only a middle-class industrial nation, and the 1997/8 Financial Crisis left its banking system & international-credit-rating very fragile. Even basic & minimal re-unification would cost untold billions that S K just doesn't have. It was once thought that Japan might pony up the needed bucks -- but now they're bankrupt too. Doubtful that the USA will agree to pay... so...?
D. People in E G knew a lot about life in W G due to open radio and TV, freedom of mail, cross-border visits, etc; thus they knew what they wanted and could adjust quickly. People in N K know next-to- nothing about life in S K, or anywhere else on earth!, nothing direct or accurate anyway, just whispered rumors at best. They have only very negative propaganda pumped at them by their evil gov every single day. For example, N K people don't know that any human has ever visited the Moon, and they have not been told that S K is hosting the World Cup. Their level of enforced isolation is Incredible but True....
#216: Gerry Feeney (gerry) Thu 27 Jun 2002
Wow! That's sobering. It could be a tall order, indeed.
#217: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Thu 27 Jun 2002
> Do you think the toughest part lies in the political/sociological, > or in the actual task/money of bringing NK up to par with SK?
Both are going to be extremely tough, and they're intimately woven together. North Korea's in SUCH bad physical shape it'll take 100 years before it's homgenous with the South. S K's younger generations are SO westernized and sophisticated and even way ahead of the USA in high-tech usage... N K's "primitive" people who don't even use cassette tapes for the most part won't fit in at all, regardless of endless rhetoric about "one family".
Consider this: Maybe 95% of the people in N K are not qualified to do ANY sort of job in a 21st-Cen economy, their education is useless and many of their current children are at least slightly brain- damaged (low IQ) from a straight decade of malnutrition. So if they re-unify, all the northern people will be given the lowest, dirtiest sorts of jobs, if they get any jobs at all. What else could happen? (the best-educated best-qualified best-ability Northerners are those high-up in the current Party & Regime, and are likely to be in jail or in Chinese exile after the collapse, if they're left alive by the vengeful mobs at all). The northern girls & young women will become a new class of prostitutes & bar-girls & mistresses & poor-men’s-wives & such, just replacing the current SE Asians (NK refugee females are already heavily used in such slavery-roles in China).
Pretty sad prospects. But that's how it'll be, for 30+ years until the new gov can raise a whole new generation of physically/ mentally fit & decently-educated northerners.
And given that the current northerners have been fed Communist egalitarian rhetoric for 50 yrs, I don't think they'll be very accepting of the 2nd-class status i've just described. I think there'll be a lot of protest and violence when they see the reality of Unity. Including the SKs taking ownership of all their best land, one way or another (by now, land is the ONLY thing they "have"). "Democracy" won't function very well for a good long time, i fear...
> Have there been any studies based on observing the process of how > NK refugess try to assimilate into SK society? How easy/hard of > a time do they have? How much adjustment has to be made?
Yes, studies; i've read plenty of reports in the papers. They have an extremely hard time adjusting. Southerners look down on them, exploit their naiveté. Their re-settlement funds are ripped off by con-artists and gangsters who promise to "help them invest, get rich" -- hell, they have no idea how capitalism works... (well, same thing just happened to street-smart Americans with Enron & WorldCom & etc).
N Ks are raised to be so passive, just waiting to be told what to do, repeating propaganda all the time, individual thought is punished & individual efforts are useless -- most rewards & punishments are to group-units, social-status is determined by your birth, promotions by who you're connected to, not ability. So when they're thrown into the hyper-competitive fast-moving sink-or-swim everyone- for-herself meritocracy of post-Olympics S K.... well, just GUESS what happens. They sink... :-(
#220: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Fri 28 Jun 2002
That's the thinking behind the "Sunshine Policy" and etc. S K spent 40 years trying to bring the Pyeongyang regime down, then switched some ten years ago to trying to keep them propped UP, in fear that sudden collapse would be catastrophic, but also trying to get them to start reforming Chinese-style so that the eventual inevitable re-unification would be a bit easier. But it hasn't worked out well -- N K doesn't respond to the friendly gestures, won't reciprocate at all, remains highly militarist, won't "reform" even tho the Chinese themselves keep urging. Propping up the regime has only led to 10 more years of the N people suffering -- up to 10% of them have died of starvation so far. The "Sunshine Policy" isn't working... but nobody has a better policy, nobody knows quite WHAT to do about this... they won't even negotiate.
#225: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Fri 13 Dec 2002
Just as a kind of post-script to the above 6-months-ago discussion, this book was selected by Korean National Academy of Sciences as one of the best research-books of recent years, and they laid out $10,000 to buy up 500 copies for distribution to all sorts of libraries. That was nice...
And it forced my Publisher to do a Second Printing, with mistakes corrected, which is good, it looks better. Academic-sortta books rarely get a 2nd printing; i guess that mine has so many color pix has made the difference, it also functions as a coffee-table / gift tome of sorts... Now, they are starting to edit the Korean translation; maybe it will finally get published this Spring (after 2 years of delay!).
#226: David Gans (tnf) Fri 13 Dec 2002
Congratulations, David!
#227: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) Sat 14 Dec 2002
That's great, David!
#228: Jack King (gjk) Sat 14 Dec 2002
That is outstanding!
#229: mother of my eyelid (frako) Sat 14 Dec 2002
What great news!
#230: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Sat 14 Dec 2002
Thanks, folks!
By the way, this book is going on sale at Gateways, a big health/spirit/travel/etc book/music store on the downtown mall in Santa Cruz. The first bookstore outside of Korea to carry it in stock (that i know of). They have a web-site, will do mail-order...
#231: Cynthia Dyer-Bennet (cdb) Mon 16 Dec 2002
Most excellent, David. It's such a gorgeous book, I'm so glad to hear it's going to be placed in so many libraries!
#232: David A. Mason (mntnwolf) Tue 17 Dec 2002
Yeah, it's good for that... attracts the eye. Found at a library, it might turn some people on to Korean culture, who had never given it any consideration (like me, before i first arrived here).